Gender and Pronouns: Unsolved

[mesotablar]

I watched a complaint recently of a trans person feeling singled out by the best intended social inclusion practice of a group of women going around the circle identifying their preferred pronouns. Everyone in that scenario used She/Her but would they have bothered doing that declaration if they didn't have a trans woman there? If they looked around and just assumed everyone was cis, as they are probably used to doing when they aren't confronted with someone who is very open about being in the gender section of LGBT+, would they have done it?

Asking or declaring pronouns is fairly common on the internet where people are anonymous behind animal pictures and assumed names. It is good practice not to assume gender on the internet because on a long post you might misgender someone multiple times and they would be unable to correct you as it happens, but only after the fact.

Is there a way to establish pronouns without singling someone out? 
I was thinking you could ask "whether anyone uses pronouns other than what they could be assumed to use according to the way they have visually presented themselves that day" It would have worked for the situation detailed above but it is problematic for other situations. It relies on traditional ideas of what men and women wear, and not fitting those boxes might be assumed to be one of the identities that uses 'they' when in fact you might prefer 'zer'. Not to mention all the other issues that might arise with non-transitioning trans people and the variety of clothing choices and styles across microcultures and traditional cultures and gendered mannerisms and secondary sexual features (or lack there of).

I don't know the answer. I am only a spectator for these gender discussions because I am cis. I don't know all the ways you might be hurt but I understand good intentions does not protect you from hurting others. 

Would the best path be, for now at least, to use people's names as pronouns until they feel comfortable to come out to me as to what their pronouns are? no singling out, no assuming people are something or different, and I do it to everyone whether they obviously present within the understood visual criteria of a gender or not. 

Comments

[fred_mouse]

The problem I can see with that first situation is that we don't know what the standard practice is when there isn't someone known to be trans in the circle. The kinds of student politicians I hung out with at uni, who were all into consensus decision making and a whole bunch of other things, and boycotted a feminist student conference (c. 1996) because they restricted it to 'womyn born womyn' or some such would absolutely have been the kind of people to do that if there was someone new to the group.

I don't have any answers though. I don't like anything that requires going around in a circle and making a statement. People like me, who have a personal gender and a political gender, would have issues with which one to pick. Bigender people are going to potentially have issues with today's gender not being future gender, and not wanting to have just one specified. Questioning people may find this too confronting. And so on.

My current solution, which is becoming more comfortable as I go along, it to use 'they' for everyone, all the time. No-one has yet said anything, but I've discussed it with my immediate family. I've relaxed it a bit for one particular group, when talking about a recently somewhat out trans person, but equally, using they with another group means that I'm neither outing nor misgendering the same person.

[mesotablar]

In University, sadly, going around in a circle and making a statement is fairly standard for tutorials. Generally it is 'Name and 3 things about you' and some friends used that opportunity to come out to the group while others did not because they were questioning or felt unsafe. ..Its possible I might be returning to the education sphere so I just want to know a better framework for introductions so I can combat ones I find problematic.

I just am finding the specific question about pronouns being added to the introduction statement being particularly problematic, especially as they are referred to as 'preferred pronouns' rather than pronouns. Though if we all used They as the automatic assumption I would again be fine with 'preferred pronouns'. I think.

I'm not very good at figuring out my way in gender issues because personally I really am an apathetic echidna. I really don't care about what people assume, or what pronouns. I just feel sad when people who are sensitive about it get singled out and hurt by other peoples misplaced good intentions.

[fred_mouse]

Oof. So, I've been a facilitator for queer ally training in a university setting, and I can see how the discussion of pronouns that we do there could translate out into a rigid 'code of practice' that didn't actually fit the needs of the queer community (not that any code of practice can fit everyone).

I've not encountered that introduce yourself kind of thing in tutorials (and I didn't run mine like that, but I'm a STEM person). I'd be loathe to do it because there are a whole bunch of reasons, including cultural, as to why people shouldn't be put on the spot like that. That said, I imagine it would be much better at a post-grad level in small groups than, say in the first week of first year, where many of those ideas are going to come as a shock to some percentage of the student population.

Are you returning to education as educator or student? Because my thoughts on those are quite different.

[mesotablar]

It seems the introduction format was more common in err, Non-STEM courses. It was common in History. Mostly absent in Economics but almost 100% guaranteed to happen in Anthropology/Film Studies/Literature. Though I do remember first year biology tutorials (so about 15 people) doing introductions in that way. Pronouns weren't brought up unless someone came out in the introductions.
(Wow, I got around a lot in my Uni days...Well I did take a few extra years to finish)

In the future I'll probably be going back as a student, so this responsibility won't be directly pressing on my shoulders anyway.

I know there is cross-pollination in teaching styles as teachers/tutors learn of how others do their jobs, and if addressing LGBT+ acceptance is seen as being addressed by having the pronoun question used, I just really want to sort out a concise point or set of points to how I feel about this. I tend to say nothing when I can't say what I really mean, so I just need to knock out all the dents in my own thoughts first, which is really hard, because it is like 3rd person objections for me. I don't personally care, but I care that other people care.

[fred_mouse]

That is a really interesting mix, and interesting the ways the different groups deal with it.

I'm appreciating the opportunity to work through my own thoughts, so please don't take any of this as prescriptive.

Where I am at the moment, I might address it as a tutor by saying something about knowing it is a common practice, but there are a number of reasons why I choose not to, and that as a result I'll be using singular they as much as I remember (because this is the practice I'm attempting to adopt).

As a student asked to give pronouns, I might say something like "I'm not comfortable with answering that". Or I might answer (it depends on the day). But I'm some variant on genderfluid. So I might also say something like 'my pronouns are a work in progress'.

[mesotablar]

I'm glad you are working through your thoughts as I am trying to work though mine.

As a stance for a tutor that is a very fair one, and in a less structured environment like a club rather than a classroom I can see that this could open up a fuller inclusive discussion on the matter.